Transcribed by Nan
Bob 1:42:56
And now I want to move on to a very serious topic. And we haven't really gone into this, but I have some information that we can work with, to refine it or something. Okay. St. Augustine, if there was such a person, what was his concept of the soul?
iON 1:43:16
Didn't recognize it. He didn't... He's not as bad as Eckhart Tolle, but he gave the soul as a constant monitoring position of the id. But he didn't, he didn't describe it like that. He didn't describe it like that, but it was basically pimping the id is the easiest way to tell you the words.
Bob 1:43:40
So, he, he saw some aspect of the stenographer aspect of the soul.
iON 1:43:50
Yes.
Bob 1:43:50
He didn't see the unrealized creations stenographer aspect of the soul. He didn't see that part.
iON 1:44:00
Well, the reason is, just like Eckhart Tolle, he tried to make that be responsible from the ego defending the id, and that's when it goes, that's always when it goes south.
Bob 1:44:13
Okay, so Arthur Kroker has an essay on St. Augustine, develops the concept of soul, and he calls it "the third term" because Augustine was able to resolve the antinomies, the endless dialectic and argument in Greek culture, and maybe Hebrew culture too. They couldn't resolve anything because they got abstracted by the phonetic alphabet. But then the abstract effect of the phonetic alphabet we call -- Kroker, somebody, calls "the third term" -- that is what he thought the soul was. Is that way off? That's nowhere near what you have always said.
iON 1:44:51
Not terrible. No, no, it's not terrible off, but it's not exactly right because it gets to a point you're trying to navigate something. And then he wasn't trying to navigate [inaudible/noise]. He was tryin' to explain it.
Bob 1:45:06
Yeah, Augustine was not -- you had some noise there. He wasn't trying to navigate something, whatever that means, he was trying to explain it. Okay.
iON 1:45:13
Correct. The same way when you take a, when you take a quadrant, and then you start with the process, and then you're tryin' to establish it. Then you have to navigate the quadrant, but at first you have to explain it. Well, he never got the aspect of it that you have to apply the quadrant. That's the part he missed.
Bob 1:45:31
What? He tried to explain it, but he didn't get to the application. Is that what you just said?
iON 1:45:36
Absolutely. Good.
Bob 1:45:38
Right. So, who made St. Augustine's writings on the soul the rule, the dominant dogma for the church? Did I have somethin' to do with that?
iON 1:45:51
No, you made it into a place, you made it into a place where they had no choice but to, to -- we have to get the right word.
Bob 1:46:07
Is it a conditioned response of the manuscript culture? The manuscript culture...
iON 1:46:11
Yeah. Yeah, I know, but then Clinton, then Clinton rolls the bowl and starts talking bullshit about that. We don't want him doin' that. [Bob chuckles] You're not gonna do that. No, 'cause then he's gonna, he's gonna explain the manuscript position. No, it's more like, we told you somethin', and then we're gonna tell ya, and then we told you what we told you. And then we're gonna tell you again what we told you. And if you do that long enough, then the next thing you know, next thing you know, they're going to -- next thing you know, that becomes normal. That becomes, "Oh, yeah! Yeah, yeah. I know about the Church of the SubGenius. [Bob chuckles] Bob Dobbs, Bob Dobbs. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that. I know that." See, you hear it enough, all of a sudden, that becomes something you can embrace, even if you don't believe it. "I don't believe in CNN, Bob; I don't believe it. I don't believe in CNN, the Clinton News Network; I don't believe in it. I don't believe it." But doesn't make any difference. After you hear it enough, there's references that you acknowledge that there's -- some people acknowledge that there is a Clinton News Network, you see.
Bob 1:47:16
Okay, I got that. The next phase is Thomas Aquinas. There was some kind of controversy.
iON 1:47:23
A lot of controversy.
Bob 1:47:23
The Gnostics were coming up in the 1100 1200. Something, you know, Henry II's time or something. The guy who invaded Ireland.
iON 1:47:32
Edward I, don't forget Edward I. He was in there too.
Bob 1:47:38
Right. So, around that timing, St. Thomas Aquinas writes some stuff that the church can say, oh, we have some dogma. This is maybe better than St. Augustine. What did Thomas Aquinas say about the soul? Any different from Augustine?
iON 1:47:53
He said that it was a holder. Yeah, he said it different. He said it's what, it's what you save. Aquinas was -- that's the part you have to save. You have to save souls. So, Aquinas -- and now, some of the, some of the Catholics did the same type stuff with the Opus Dei and then who was them other ones that whoops their -- like you, Bob -- they whoop their own ass? You know, when they whoop their ass when they try and make atone for somethin'.
Bob 1:48:18
That's Opus Dei.
iON 1:48:20
Oh, the one where they whoop their ass like you do. You know, when you whoop your own ass. You know, like that.
Bob 1:48:24
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
iON 1:48:25
So, it's like that, that you have to prove some point. And so, this point is, is that I have to get a hold of my id. I have to control my id so that even though my id thinks bad things and does terrible things on Tuesday afternoons, I can still be saved enough [Bob chuckles] to listen to the mass on Sunday. And so, Aquinas is tryin' to lay it out to the point that you could, by works, achieve salvation that would redeem -- here's what you never heard this before -- that would redeem your faltering soul. That's where Aquinas was different.
Bob 1:49:03
Right. Now this....
iON 1:49:01
Now, now, and now, Herbert W. Armstrong, Herbert W. Armstrong did it a different way. He said you're gonna sin, you're gonna fuck up. You are a fuck up. That's what Bob says. You are a fuck up. We know you're gonna fuck up. You're fucked up. You fucked everything kinda like the -- you remember the cockatoo, the little cockatoo, the "Fuck! Fuck! Fuck!"? The thing's always sayin', "Fucked up." Okay. [Bob chuckles] He said you're gonna fuck up, but we're gonna save you with the Bible. We're gonna save you with the Bible. See, we're gonna save you with the Bible with the word, the Living Word of God. Ooh, we're saved.
Bob 1:49:38
That's what, that's what Aquinas brought in. Aquinas brought that in.
iON 1:49:42
As well. But Armstrong made it... But see, -
Bob 1:49:45
Oh, yeah.
iON 1:49:45
- Aquinas is saying that that was the condition of the Catholic inspiration, you see. That you had to take control of it. Herbert W. Armstrong said you can't control it, you are a sinner. You were born in sin, so you are a sinner. You are fallen from the grace and glory of God. But Aquinas says if you get ahold of yourself, you can work your way by "works," you can make it through the gate, just inside the gate. That was good.
Bob 1:50:13
Okay, so...
iON 1:50:14
That was good, Bob. That was good.
Bob 1:50:15
Yeah. So now, was Aquinas necessary to update the dogma -
iON 1:50:18
Yes.
Bob 1:50:19
- because it was more effect of writing and manuscript culture than St. Augustine's period?
iON 1:50:30
Agreed. Agreed. And if you, if you read, if you read Thompson, Thompson actually brings that out. He actually brings that out of the difference of the separation between the soul and the sin or the death. Yeah, we call it death deprecation. [chuckles]
Bob 1:50:50
He brings in angels, Thompson does.
iON 1:50:52
Yeah, well, that's right. Well, see, but now wait a minute. So does, so does Aquinas because it's that angelic build that allows you to have the capacity to find the salvation.
Bob 1:51:05
Okay, we got that. So, this whole thing about the soul, did Vedanta, Hinduism, Buddhism before Christianity, did they have an idea of a soul or they didn't have that quote, confusion?
iON 1:51:19
They didn't call it a soul, they called it the hara. They called it the hara, the part that held you, the hara. Everything was from the driven position of the chakra. And the Tibetans did the same thing; was all about the energies from where that is, and you know, don't, don't write the book. You know, those people.
Bob 1:51:42
Right, right. So, so the, the purity of Hinduism, for its day was accurate. But when the phonetic alphabet and writing and the beginning of the Western technological dynamo starts with this new form of reading...
iON 1:51:58
Nobody was talking. Nobody was talking during Hinduism, so nobody got confused with the words. They weren't saying any words. They were, they were chanting, they weren't speaking. They were just chanting. And that's what the Catholics we're tryin' to do in their Latin 'cause nobody can understand it. "Amida omeo do da asshole." [Bob, iON chuckle] Nobody knew what the fuck they were sayin'. All they knew is that they, if they, if they kiss the ring or suck the dick, they got blessed. [Bob chuckles] So, that's all they had to do was either kiss the ring or suck the dick, then they got, then they got blessed. That's all they was tryin' to do. So, that's the rub, that condition. Now, some of that's smart if you can keep people out of the written word. They can't misunderstand if they didn't hear the word, which is what you say.
Bob 1:51:58
They can't misunderstand it if they didn't hear the word, yes.
iON 1:52:43
Correct.
Bob 1:52:46
But the point is, as they get more embedded in what McLuhan called visual space, in the West, it made the West different from the East, from Hinduism, and that, but technology was taking over. The beginning of the building of the Tech Body was coming in.
iON 1:53:03
Isn't that what you call solipsism? Isn't that what you call solipsism?
Bob 1:53:08
Yeah, solipsism. The point is the West dynamic of writing and coming up with the idea of the soul or the Western idea of the soul, Aquinas' idea, that was a necessary technological conditioned response that the East was not prepared for. They remained in...
iON 1:53:26
Certainly. Certainly.
Bob 1:53:26
They were not prepared for that difference, that...
iON 1:53:28
Certainly. Now, here's where the rub, here's where the rub comes. The rub comes if every society came from North America, from America, and went out and then bred everything not in the Yarmulka continent, when it came back home, all it did was get expelled or defined. When it left, it had no definition.
Bob 1:53:28
Right.
iON 1:53:28
When they came back, it was very well defined. And that's the problem. Now we're having pronoun problems. All of a sudden, now, now people don't even know what a man – what’s the definition of a fuckin’ woman is now. [Bob laughs] They don't even know what they're... "I can't answer that! I'm not, I don't... I've ever seen one. I don't know what a woman is. Yeah, no, I can't be tellin'... No, no, in that context, in that context, I can't be answering that question." You go, that's the craziest thing ever, ever, ever! [Bob laughs] It's been adopted and embraced, and it's basically about as crazy as you sounded your whole entire life. You're startin' to sound sane! [Bob chuckles] We're scared! We're very afraid. We are afraid. When you start sounding sane, trouble is afoot. Trouble is afoot. No wonder Mary McLuhan liked to take to the bottle when she had investors over.
Bob 1:54:45
When she what? Had investors over did you say?
iON 1:54:48
Yeah, when she had investors over. 'Cause you know, she'd never drank, but she'd have a little champagne if she was with a client or somebody's gonna give money for something, she'd have a little champagne. [iON laughs] Poor Mary.
Bob 1:54:59
Okay, so when you say it all came back, do you mean it came back to the United States? What does "coming back" mean?
iON 1:55:12
Yeah. That's what you're saying. Coming back to hear the word, the written word, -
Bob 1:55:15
The melting pot.
iON 1:55:15
- judged position, the melting pot that's melted. That's what's wrong. You talk about the melting pot, but they don't even acknowledge that the pot melted. It's a melting pot! It melted. That's what they don't, that's what they don't get. And now, nobody knows what they are. Dogs and cats are layin’ together. [Bob laughs] People fuckin’ mules, mules fuckin’ people. We're marrying, we're marrying house plants. [Bob laughs] "I identify as a house plant lover. I'm gonna marry my Rhododendron. I fucked the shit out of that Rhododendron last night! Oooh, I got some Rhododendron! It was some fine stuff! Lord Jesus. I had, I had, I had, I had, I had a kumquat. A kumquat!? Oooh. I'm gonna marry. We're gonna get married. We're registered at Dillards. We're registered at Dillards. We're gonna have a nice quiet ceremony; it's gonna be great." It's crazy! And people can't... And goddamn dare you to say somethin'! They'll have you drug before the court of the land. Don't you go against them kumquat lovers, leave them alone! [Bob laughs] Leave them alone. No, no, no. And now, and you're laughing because you're seeing that is really happening. It's all crazy! It's insanity.
Bob 1:56:30
Okay. All right. We got that, iON. We got a timing issue. So, so...
iON 1:56:37
[laughs] We had to get you at least seven minutes of some'um you could play, Bob. We had to get at least seven minutes of some'um you can play.
Bob 1:56:41
Yeah. Now, we've been discussing the soul and the soul stays with the physical when it transitions, when demise happens, so-called demise.
iON 1:56:46
Yeah.
Bob 1:56:46
And the essence goes back...
iON 1:56:42
Yeah, if it does. If you demise.
Bob 1:56:55
Yeah. The essence goes on to the Guf and still has the consciousness. And the soul is not the essence of ourselves. This is a side story, the soul.
iON 1:57:04
Correct. Well, don't say side story; it's a sidebar. It's a part of the whole picture, but it's a sidebar. And that's why people are often taken aback when they discover who they really are.
Bob 1:57:18
Right. Which is more than their idea or image of the soul. Way more than that.
iON 1:57:22
Typically. Typically. Well, we'd say typically, yeah. We would say typically, yeah, but see, can't say that every single time without fail or exception. So, we have to add the "typical" to it because some people know who they are, but they just won't have it. And that's different. Some people know they're, some people know that they're Edgar Casey and can't figure it out. See, they don't know it.
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