Transcribed by Nan
[Note: Abstracted version for simplicity. What Youth 4/19/22, 2200 hrs.]
Bert
... What was it that Bob you said earlier in the show. Maybe, when you were talking to Ginney when you were speaking about the word that the print bias is gone. And that's what's making everybody shake right now.
Bob
Yeah. And all the mysticism is you're actually adapting the print bias to some esoteric level. Like, we were talking about somebody, and they were literally doing the print bias. I don't know who was it that brought that up? Did he mention somebody?
Bert
Ginney.
Alissa
It was during bringing up the Mr. Straight.
Bob
Oh, the Straight guy. And once you understand what the Gutenberg effects are, you know exactly what America was built on. And you have many Americans trying to retrieve that and the purity of 1783 or '89, when they had sovereign, private literate identity, and they think you can get back to that. And that's what they're trying to do. And yeah, it was defined that way, but we've mutated millions of years since then. And you now have the end times with a President who's fucking, walking around standing on his head and picking his nose, and people aren't paying attention. They don't care that the President's doing that. That's how "gone" people are in terms of concepts that you might think are valuable to retrieve. And no, there's nobody there that's going to understand why you think it's important to get your sovereignty. They don't want that kind of stuff. They just want good radio, good video, good MTV, good TikTok. They just wanna be engaging in the super angelic state of infinite consumption.
Carolyn
Can I play this?
Bob
No, we don't do that.
Carolyn
But this is where Americans are.
Bob
Well, he's -- what's his endpoint? Don't play it. What's his endpoint?
Carolyn
Play it.
Bob
Recording: "The United States of America, the most powerful country on this planet. It's not because we have more money or better lookin'. No. Because we have something in this country they don't have in other countries. That's right. We're talking about rednecks. Good old boys with an arsenal in their basement that have been waiting for just such an occasion since 1775. Believe me, foreign troops land in the South, there'll be a line of pickup trucks and NASCARs heading down I-95. Marines will show up three hours later, nothing but beer cans and shotgun shells. What the hell happened here? War's over, baby!" War's over, baby. That's what he yells at the end. The rednecks I guess yelled that.
Carolyn
They're gonna save us.
Bob
But see, we can come in and I can analyze that, show the deficiencies in his analysis or the services or what's really going on. But that's what comedy is. Comedy is the news. They tell you the folklore. They don't give you the science, the causes behind it. That's what I do. That's why I'm the greatest comedian. I, see, we get so many jokes. You know, people say, well, what do they say -- you don't talk about jokes. You don't explain jokes. That's crummy. You either get it or you don't. Well, I'm an anti environment to that. I come on and I explain the fucking jokes. And if you're smart and follow the explanation, it'll become funnier than the jokes, my explanation.
Jean
Okay, Bob. So, tell us again then why Lynda's grandmother dug holes and hid money in the yard and had an arsenal in her basement and was waiting for the war. And that -
Bob
Who is that?
Jean
- goes generations in her family.
Bob
Oh, L-y-n-d-a. Lynda
Jean
Lynda with a "y." Yeah.
Bob
Lynda with the newspaper. Why her grandmother did this?
Jean
Yes. And they've carried, the family's carried it through for generations; for three generations now that they have to be prepared for the war.
Bob
Ha, ha, since 1775 they've been ready.
Jean
Yeah. Hidin' their cash and collecting guns.
Bob
Okay, so what do you do with a gun? Which sense does the gun use?
Jean
Oh, which sense? Well, ear?
Bob
No. The fucking -- see how you're unaware of the basics? Eyeball, the eyeball. You're extending the eye. You're aiming your point of view to the max. Right?
Jean
Okay. Right. I'm behind the gun. I'm behind the gun. Got it. Okay.
Bob
And where did the eye, the extending of the eye come from?
Jean
The extension of the
Alissa
Book.
Bob
The book.
Bert
Print
Jean
Print.
Bob
Print. And America is the only country built on print.
Jean
Built on print.
Bob
You're on a bit of delay, dealing with (indistinct) ideas.
Jean
Yes, a continual delay, Bob. That's why you always have to be in the room.
Bob
So, you have to understand. You go to Europe, they had the pastoral, wonderful world for 1000s of years, right? The agricultural world. And they didn't have books or anything. They didn't have manuscripts, the priests had that. You know, an isolated minority. So they just had the music of the bells in the church. So, you get a country built on the book, that's a radical mutation in a wilderness They start with the book. You have to really get that in your head about that's how, why America is so different.
Jean
Well in -- okay, so the inception of America was based on the printing press. And that created the condition of supposed freedom. They started thinking about being free in that kind of way where it wasn't -- that thought wasn't there before?
Bob
No, wait a minute. You gotta go back a step. You go back to England. The printing press shows up. It creates these abstract people called Puritans who were gonna make a big deal of the flattened space, not multisensuous, of the book effect. And they are suppressed, so they take their books and go over to North America and start America on the book; the Puritans, or what they call the Calvinists. And so, they
Jean
Okay, let me go back just a little bit before that. So, the printing press was invented, they started printing books, and then Europe started developing a bias about which books were proper. Right? The bias was created then.
Bob
Well, the Catholic Church, they didn't do books. The Protestants, they started the book world, the Protestants; they formed their own religion. So, the Catholics had to catch up. So, they formed the Jesuits, Ignatius Loyola, and they had to put their authority, their medieval authority, which is early visual space, it's alphabetic, but it's not printing press, visual space. Printing press visual space emphasizes kinetic movement more than the phonetic alphabet. But anyways, the alphabetic tendency of having authority, having 24 -- instead of having 24 Gods, you have one God. They're reductionists, the West, the alpha, the alphabetic West. So, that's the three religions, you know, Hebrews, Islam and Christianity. So when, when the church now has to adapt their clothing and make something adapt to the printing press, they come up with their Counter-Reformation, and they create the index. They must censor books. See, they don't get the idea of the purity of freedom of, of learning that the Protestants get. They don't care about any Catholic rules; they don't have any. They don't have any rules. They're just pagans, and they just start reading. And they like the sensation they get, all the ideas and abstractions. They're not trying to police it, but the previous authoritarian feudal society, they're gonna adapt to the printing press, but they're gonna make sure there's fucking feudal rules about it. So, they started making censored books and not-censored books. Right? The index. So, there's the difference. And so, they're always playing this authoritarian role for the next couple of 100 years, and they don't do too well because kinetic industry comes out of the printing press. And that's developed in, you know, with the steam ship or the steam machine. What is it James Watt developed? The steam -
Jean
Engine.
Bob
- engine? Steam engine. And then the railroad and all its kinetic stuff. And that takes off in America, too. But it's, it's bringing the railroad net into this pastoral, wonderful European landscape. And so, the Europeans don't get as kinetic and industrial as rapidly as Americans because they're visually biased and have no pastoral background. They just want to chop trees down and kill anybody who gets in the way and make stuff to survive on and then keep moving. They don't want us -- they're not, they're not sedentary. They're not Neolithic, they're, got kinetic education. They wanna move and travel and get, keep seeing what's over the horizon at the end of their guns. It keeps citing the gun to the horizon, looking for something to shoot. So, the eyeball and the gun is the archetypal complementary to the effect of the book. So, that is American identity is the gun. And that's what they're, that's what they're protecting. Whatever's going on today in the Android Meme society, what Americans got? They got the Second fuckin' Amendment, and you don't, you don't mess with it. Right? Because that's their core identity. But it's especially among the, the unsophisticated, the non-cosmopolitan, the redneck, the guys that just grew up and stay where they grew up, or just truck around. They're not looking into book culture. Like, you know, the upper classes. They go to Harvard and then they go to Oxford, and they learn book culture in purity, in isolation. Whereas the, the American, the average American has to have a bit of book culture, which is the reading and writing, gotta know how to write out their identity card or fill out forms, but they're not gonna read novels and they don't care about mental abstractions. They're into sports and race cars and horses and movement. It's all kinetic.
Jean
And the gun got 'em -- they kept going west, they hit the East Coast when they moved from Europe and kept moving west. And the gun got them west, kept them moving.
Bob
Yeah, they got there. So, what happens when they, when they reach the end, California, what happens? California starts to create post-literate technologies: movies and radio and the whole Hollywood thing. It happens there because there is no industrial background like there was in the East Coast. They're like a new -- they're landing on the moon out in California. So, there's room for even newer technologies. You can't bring in the movie and electric stuff as rapidly or run it like a bunch of cowboys. You couldn't do that in New York City, too much of previous media establishments there; opera and music, you know, ballet, book stuff. So, when Woody Allen's movie, "Annie Hall" came out, McLuhan was in it. And he was talking about it after making the movie, and he said it was about the battle between Hollywood and New York, or the 20th century California versus the 19th century New York City. That's what the drama that Woody Allen's going through. And he sides with the New York. He can't take the acoustic space being literate guy; he can't take California. That's the whole drama in the movie, he and Diane Keaton.
Jean
Excellent. Okay.
Bob
Yeah. So, the movie -- he, listen to this, Jean. The movie is named "Annie Hall." That is the name of McLuhan's aunt.
Jean
Really.
Bob
Yeah, but I don't think nobody told him, didn't tell Woody that. Just turned out that way. That's the name they came up with. Because I think Diane Keaton had another name first in the movie, then it got changed. And no one has ever explained whether McLuhan had an input into naming it "Annie Hall" because of its relevance. He might have secretly told Woody Allen that, so Woody Allen put it in. But I have no information on that. But it ended up being the title anyway, that's just a side point. But the
Jean
So, the settlers, Bob. The settlers, the people that moved west and then claim their plot of land, that's what, you know, there were people along the way that stopped and claimed their space.
Bob
Of visual space. They did not form communes or go tribal with the Indians. They're totally hypnotized by the isolation's effect of the book.
Jean
Right. Yep, this is mine now and I'm gonna defend it. Me and my generations are gonna defend it.
Bob
This is my territory for as far as the eye can see is my ranch. Not as far as the ear could hear. That's what the Indians got. The Indians got that goin'. So, look at these people, the rednecks. Now, iON says the subculture is forming. He said that you know, eight, nine years ago. That's the redneck world, the Patriot world. But iON said later, they ain't gonna win. It's too obsolete what they're trying to defend.
Alissa
Well, yeah, they said, they said the Patriots will rise up, but after all of their risin' up, there's not gonna be an America left.
Bob
Yeah. Well, iON said it today. We should excerpt that. There is no America now. Now, that's the crisis that most Americans are running around trying to build up their image of what America would be, but now it's a was.
Jean
They wanna restore America to what it was.
Bob
Or that's the conservatives. The radicals, they want to make it what it could be, a hardware communist, a hardware socialism, a hardware sharing, everybody enjoying what China has. They're all -- or Russia. They brought back the 1850 industrial world and made everybody have equal access to it. But it lowered everybody down, but everybody was equal. Whereas the Western world brought in industry and capitalism and hardware communism with a hierarchy.
Jean
Okay, now that reminds me, how would you compare McCarthyism, the era of McCarthyism to now?
Bob
Well, McLuhan wrote about that. Radio threatened everybody as acoustic space. And the more tribal, less industrialized places became extreme radio tribal, and that's called Nazism or fascism. And whereas it was more mixed in England and the United States and maybe France, they had a bit of visual thing. So what they, they didn't form a fascist tribal thing, they became what was known as fellow travelers. That was the movement in the 30s in America. And the Socialist Party started to do a little better, but they never won. So then TV comes in, in the late 40s, early 50s. And that's having an effect on the radio sensibility. Actually, way different from radio; it's tactile not acoustic. So now both radio, movies and TV and all 20th century technologies are electric, therefore tactile. Underneath they're all tactile, but on the surface, radio is ear, and TV is eye. So, the tribalism of radio which leads to communism or fascism, became a figure when TV came in. So, McCarthy said, there's something goin' on here, we're becoming communists. What he meant is the acoustic effect of radio that already happened became a figure; it became conscious of it. And he projected the literate persons anti group mind into Washington and the bureaucracy, said they were communists running the world there. It was a literate response to the increasing acoustic tribal factor.
Jean
Okay, now, could you say that in applying the tetrad then would they be equivalent to the Catholic Church in the days of the printing press? The last scenario we ran through. Now it's the Tech Body.
Bob
Yeah. Here's the paradox. McCarthy is representing visual values, but he's a radio tribal guy and he's actually a fascist, too. He's saying, we're gonna be a literate fascist, not a communist unchristian fascist. You see? He's demanding; he's shocking to the liberal literate tradition in his fanaticism. So, what they do, they put him on TV where you can't be a hot screaming image, acoustically, you got to be a cool, casual tactile image. And the Army put on McCarthy, and he was so radio fanatic for visual values that he turned off the American population and he succumbed within a few weeks because he didn't know he was in a different medium, television. Now, the Army might have known that. The CIA. Remember, I
Alissa
To put him on TV on purpose.
Bob
Yeah. They knew of McLuhan. He was writing in '51, '52, and '53. And they don't do it till '54. And I was told to go look into McLuhan in '53, '54 because he was writing stuff and exposing the medium is the message that the Solar Government, Secret Council of Ten, didn't want anybody to know. They knew that. So, I have always said the Secret Council of Ten knew the McLuhan stuff instinctively from their own experience. So they, somebody in that network figured out to put him on TV. Then it worked.
Jean
Yeah, you've said, you've said that they were surprised that McLuhan knew what he knew. You know, when they discovered the
Bob
Yeah. They couldn't believe anybody, a citizen, knew this. Or a dumb prof, you know. That's why I was sent over there in late '53 early '54. You we read my diary, I hook up with Duchamp in December, and I see Garrett. I don't know who he is, but I see him in the club. That, those diaries are interesting in late '53, early '54. Then I go up and see McLuhan in I don't know, February, March '54, something like that. But another point is the whole radio world collapsed in '53. Gerry Fialka used to go on about how important 1953 was 'cause he was born in '53. And so was Reverend Stang. So, they liked to look at what happened in '53. Well, a lot at the acoustic space of the radio died in '53. Stalin dies. McCarthyism dies. LSD is discovered. The DNA is discovered. Well, LSD is discovered 10 years before privately in Europe, but it starts to be used in the early 50s. So, the TV sensibility symbolized by Elvis is what's gonna take over next couple of years, '55, '56, '57. And that's a whole different world. You can't, you know, it changes so fast. It's not a change for kids, but for adults, they're living in the sedate -- what was that Redford, Barbra Streisand movie, "The Way We Were"? Wasn't that about the 40s, 30s and 40s? Remember how they're at college and it's all so sedate and proper. It's tribal 'cause its got jazz and swing bands and all that. But it's also old fashioned stiff, compared to "Blackboard Jungle," which is gonna, you know, show up a few years later. Totally different sensibility.
Jean
Wow. Yeah. Big difference. Big difference between those two.
Bob
Yeah. The world really changed in the late 50s from this, that detective world of the 40s. What's his name? Hubert Humphrey or something? He's a famous actor.
Alissa
Humphrey Bogart.
Bob
Humphrey Bogart world. Yeah, you just look at those people. They go around with their hats, you know, tilted hats and their trench coats, and it's all stiff and formal. And you think it's just 10 short fucking weeks, so to speak, when all of a sudden, everybody's rockin’ and ripping up the auditorium chairs. The bobby-sockers and that. Right? And the kids are going nuts in the auditorium. It's not very far from the Barbra Streisand image of the 40s. It's almost like when TV brought in tactility, and synesthesia and the mixture of all the senses, all the old Gutenberg senses, the eye and the ear, the separate senses, actual individual senses as opposed to tactility, which is no sense, it's just the interplay of senses. You have in the late 50s, early 60s, a blossoming of the eye, and the ear and the touch and everything. All the different arts, pop art, music, dance, everything changes under the TV effect. All the old senses all become orphic spirals and ultimately become louder and louder and more garish. That's the (indistinct) of the 60s.
Jean
The explosion, the explosion of elements.
Bob
It's implosion not explosion. And so, implosion has to be translated into old senses. So, every art, every extension of the senses in the Gutenberg has a baroque spiral of abundance and extreme expression. In the late 50s, early 60s, 70s, 80s, that's what, that's what you see.
Alissa
Jean, are you tracking this differently than you haven't before?
Jean
No, not differently. Bob's reminding me, just reminding me. And my ultimate question is now to apply all this to the current situation. But I don't want
Bob
Okay. You gotta go through the Android Meme phase. But before, the content of the Android Meme is more and more volume and special effects in movies. More and more crazy TV. More and more art, crazy art. More and more crazy music. More and more crazy ballet, sculpture, opera. Experimenting in all the old Gutenberg senses, the specialist senses, which is all our senses, in the ground of no sense which is tactically. Which is really virtual. I broached this idea on Office Hours last Wednesday. I said, you know, I now read McLuhan when he talks about tactile, he means virtual because tactile is not a sense.
Alissa
That's cool, Bob.
Bob
Yeah. Yeah, no, it works because the virtual, you can't tell whether it's physical or software or something. What is the virtual? What is a simulated world? It's neither physical or eventful. But in the interval, that's tactility. So, McLuhan was describing all the books that were written in the 80s, 90s using the word virtual; it's just a replay by the Android Meme of tactile.
Jean
That's new, Alissa. That's new for me.
Susana
You had said before about the fact that the Beatles came in, and, and it was Elvis changed the music and then the Beatles came in and you know, continued it.
Bob
Elvis was the -- you could say Elvis was the eyeball. Eye tactility. The Beatles were proprioceptive tactility. They weren't kinetics, they were more proprioceptive was traveling the inner circuitry. And they were a group. They weren't an individual. They weren't a soloist. They were the hive mind.
Susana
And you said that The Beatles were introduced into the public to distract them from the Kennedy assassination.
Bob
Yeah, that's Big Brother. See, you have all these previous media environments, or mini states are all reacting to the new situation. Big Brother, as a mini state, the deep state they call it now, was so upset by the power of Kennedy's image. They said this is more powerful than, Mr. Rockefeller says, than I have behind the scenes. This is not good. So, they killed the Kennedy image. They had to stop it because everybody's having an identity crisis no matter what level of society they're in because all their senses are being changed, or their sensory makeup. So, everybody's having an identity crisis. So, you registered to any crisis in all the different industries.
Jean
Okay. So, and it was quick then. You know, you just talked about how fast those things changed. But the speed with which that happens now, isn't even comparable.
Bob
Well, it doesn't involve humans. The speed doesn't involve humans. It's the speed of the machines themselves.
Alissa
And the Decad-Dance is over. And the Decad-Dance is over. We've danced the hexad(vertisement) already. So, we don't have that same Baroque spiraling to track it. Like how iON talks about like juxtaposing it against something or whatever. Or the aspects.
Bob
Listen to this. So, in '95, Netscape and people get online. In '95, you know, what's his name, Tim Berners-Lee gets, invents HTTP in '91. And then Mosaic starts to spread at '93, and then Netscape takes over. So, everybody goes nowhere. They get cancelled because secretly, behind in the ground level, the Android Meme, the cyborg is sneaking up on everybody from '60 to '90. So, you see that the, the nostalgia for the 60s or nostalgia for the 50s, or even the 70s is nostalgia for the chemical body of reality when there were senses people thought. Even though they're inside tactility, extended, they thought there were senses. So, by the 80s, in comes all across society, the unreal, the popular word simulation. The actors, Regan, you know, becomes President. What the fuck. You got an actor being a President. That's not real. That's not serious. Oh, that's the, that's the Chemical Body's point of view. So, everything gets wiped out throughout the 80s. So then I announced in the late 80s, everything's disappeared. That means everything of the senses and of the tactile extension. So, TV, movies, telephones, everything disappears. And then it goes digital in the 90s. And that's, that's another world, that's not human.
Jean
You can explain what happened to music in the 80s in that context, too.
Bob
Well, you have the, you have in the 50s, the bursting of TV, so they assassinate Elvis, put him in the Army. And that brings in all the little Bobby's who sing the music for the 14-year-old Debbie. They have failed and get rid of Alan Freed and the lively anarchy of the record industry from '55 to say, '58. They get rid of Alan Freed and they bring in Dick Clark, and it's all sanitized. It's made less live and controlled and geared towards teenagers. Whereas in the '54, '55, '56, it's Chuck Berry, black music, which is a big deal all across the black culture. It's not just for teenagers. And then that comes over and the first couple of years it's for adults. It's not targeted to the teenagers, but the teenagers respond to it because they don't know any better. And then that has to be cleaned up. And the same movement happened in TV. They stopped live TV in there, in the early 60s. They couldn't take this spontaneity that was happening. So, they brought in canned laughter and dead TV. So, that's the beginning of the Android Meme. That's the beginning of the, of the getting rid of the Chemical Body and the anthropomorphic physical in the human. But it's a long process and people don't know it because they're enjoying the content which is going through multiple Baroque spirals of efflorescence. E-f-f-l-o-r-e-s-c-e-n-c-e. Efflorescence or -- I forget what the word is, but some triumphant supernova of all the senses. And the little Gutenberg arts that go with those senses. But underneath everything is being removed from the human body. And it's going to go virtual, digital, or machinic, which by the 90s now has the visible technology called the internet that will replay the disappearance that happened from '60 to '90. So, my Chart's a picture of the afterimage of the Android Meme, and the internet is the afterimage of the Android Meme. The Android Meme is sneaking up on everybody through the late 50s, 60, 70s, 80s, especially once the satellite, Sputnik, happens. So, you can see there's a final freedom of the 60s that people thought was free, but they were, they were actually being gathered like cats to be put in a concentration camp, which were, became universities in the 70s, or you're only allowed to take business stuff in university in the 70s and 80s. Then it became even more ridiculous in the 80s. But the point is the increasing sense by the literate intellectuals starting at the end of the Carter era, and into Reagan of increasing fascism in America. You go back and look at Christopher Hitchens, Noam Chomsky, these guys are yelling for 50 fucking years about this increasing control of newspapers. You know, Manufacturing Consent is the slogan. So, the loss of the issues of the 50s and 60s is extreme in the, in the 80s, and 90s because the young kids don't know anything about it. They don't have any connection to the literate issues of the 70s, of the 60s, 70s. And most of the literate issues actually got semi completed, they did get civil rights. They did have the sexual revolution. They did have freedom of speech. They allowed more and more pornography. Every sense was allowed to express itself. But that was the supernova, supernova before it's all gonna be replayed for something else and not you. See, the 60s was a replay of the Gutenberg arts for the people. It was being communicated to the people. So, everybody thought there was all kinds of revolutions goin' on, but they weren't gonna go anywhere because they're gonna get replaced by the hidden ground of the digital which was not talking to humans. And so, look at the image of Regan. One more thing about Reagan. He's an actor being a President. That's the machines communicating to machines. He's not a President for people. People aren't going to accept a fuckin' actor! Ha. You havin' a guy pretending he's a President, that ain't gonna work. And so that's when you get 70% of Americans don't vote anymore. They don't take it seriously. They don't have anywhere else to go.
Jean
Yeah, but that's when punk music and grunge.
Bob
Okay. So, what you had in -- you had Elvis, then you had the Beatles. So, it went from individual rock to group mind rock, and then inner space with color TV at psychedelic rock; that's taken drugs while listening to music and having inner tripping. And then that flips into boredom and with Neil Young and James Taylor and his boring, sad, depressed music after _____[?] and the end of the 60s. So, the early 70s is really bland and you have Donny Osmond, a very bad, well, just music for a 12-year-old. And Zappa is not allowed on the radio anymore. So, you then have a reaction to that is progressive music. That's people sitting around smoking marijuana. The society couldn't stop the spread of marijuana 'cause kids, people had to use it to survive the electronic eternity that was coming in, the suspension of time. So, you had these long guitar solos known as progressive rock, right? And, but then, cable TV and whatever technology come in in the late 70s caused a flip out of that, and you have back to instant, instant stimulation. That's the Ramones and three-minute songs. They brought back the early 60s after this progressive long guitar solos. All of a sudden, the punks, they, first of all didn't care whether you played, you just bang the resonant interval. And it vibrated people and they start hopping up and down. So that was post literate music. It was not based on a handcraft of knowing how to manipulate the, the instrument. Anyway, that's an expression of a sensory preference in a short phase. So, the punk thing is big and then it drops. And where does it go? It all goes into techno. You remember that word? New Wave techno. That's where you're starting to get into the Android Meme, and the technology is becoming the music. The techno, you know, many people didn't like it. Others did, depending on your temperament and your age. But a lot of young people didn't care that it was machine music, that it was techno. And you had disco in there, bouncing off and keeping the kinetic stuff going. Because in the long run, going more and more into inner space and almost using music as a hit, a drug, as heroin. You know, uplift yourself instantly; get that instant thing. That's what the Ramones and punk said, just want to get a hit. Not a musical record hit, but a sensory blast. Total overcomers. Here comes the Heaven's Gate. We're a total overcomer cult. We're a punk cult.
Jean
Just that simple beat. Just a bom, bom, bom.
Bob
Yeah. Well, it's the electric effect. It didn't matter. Anybody could have been Elvis as long as they use the electric media or electric technology, electric instruments. Because the electrification of rock and roll was quite different from the electrification of a jazz and swing, the different sensibility. So, it was more instant with rock and roll. So, the -- because the basic charge of electricity is what's attracting people, the tactile rush. And that's also why people get into drugs more and more. So, after disco and punk, it goes into machinic and then you have a reaction to that. The machinic becomes heavy! Heavy machine! They call it heavy metal.
Jean
Heavy Metal.
Bob
[chuckles] It's like so mechanical one phase to the next, once you know the laws of the flipping of sensibility. So, heavy metal comes in, and then the increasing college stations. Whole new markets come in. That's where I come in is the college stations. Everybody all across America is listening to whatever their friends play on the radio, and they're going to not play commercial standard mainstream stuff, top 40 stuff. They're gonna find whatever eccentric stuff they have. So, that brings in alternative music or Indi music. And then that creates Nirvana, and Nirvana sort of rides that, that kind of grunge music they called it. And that would be when the wall went down,
Alissa
You can, you can also use the term garage music 'cause that's what
Bob
Yeah, the garage bands.
Alissa
Yeah, that fits what you're saying with the college radio thing.
Bob
Yeah, the garage band was the 60s. And the punks replayed the grunge band. And then the independent replay -- the Indie music replayed the garage band ideologically. They're like rap. Rap is black music gone ideological. They're into, you know, wiping out the police. Defund the police. You know, who were they? Run DMC and Public Enemy. That was a big deal, Gangsta rap. So, you have the last gasp of the human as you're gonna move into the Android Meme afterimage, the computer world. The last gasp is cavemen doing music beginning with heavy metal. Now totally Paleolithic. It was fucking ridiculous people bashing away, and there's no normal music sensibility. But the 15-year-olds don't care, they need the hit. And Zappa even said this in interviews at the time. He says you can understand why the kids go for heavy metal. They need that acoustic release, because there's so much increasing pressure on them in their young lives in school because the machines are taking over, and the kids have to deal with that. They're getting lousy education. They're not getting the old values. They don't know how to relate to the old values. They can't relate to the new Android Meme thing, so they're very frustrated.
Jean
They just start banging their heads. They just start banging their heads.
Bob
Yeah, they get an instant rush.
Jean
Okay, let me take a shot. That moves into rap. And rap brings back the word, but it's like a language that isn't understood.
Bob
It's weaponized word. It's weaponized word. To use a more modern word. Yeah, they were political. That's what Frank in an interview dismissed the whole rap and says that's not music, that's political. Now, he could, he could say it in more detail, or he couldn't have depending, but I was there to fill in a better way of explaining it, the more subtleties, which I did on CKLN.
Susana
And could you also align this whole thing with both print and music with the meaning the time going more rapidly into the Tech Body where it actually canceled out time? Because now you can go into the Tech Body and retrieve anything from any era, both as content and in watch it whenever you want. So, in essence, there is a feeling of no time.
Bob
Right. And also, you can retrieve any futuristic science fiction movies. There are a lot of those. So, you can retrieve the future, not just the past, literally the past. You can get future scenarios and live some crazy reality that iON has pointed out over the last 10 years all these new TV series which are pretty science fiction-like. That's retrieving the future, not just the past. Future scenarios. There's more and more of that. So, don't just think of finding the past. You can also find the future.
Jean
It's retrieving all possible futures. Because, you know, science fiction was big in the 50s. And there was all kinds of creative ideas that are still cycled through now.
Bob
Yep. You're retrieving all times and spaces, but there was something else. You were asking -- what what was Nan saying, or was that Susana?
Alissa
Susana was talking before.
Bob
The seek -- what were you saying, Susana, you were talking about? I didn't get your idea.
Susana
Well, that there was a feeling that a lot of people had over lack of time, or that the -
Bob
Acceleration.
Susana
- (indistinct) was going faster. And now, it seems like there's no time or it's been cancelled out if you look at the Tech Body.
Bob
There's another level. Listen to this. When you take -- McLuhan wrote in '64 when he was reviewing Burroughs, that when you take heroin, you immediately put on the whole universe. You know, you get that big rush. And somehow it feels like you're wearing everything. It's sort of like a god experience, a mystical experience, whereas LSD gave you visual images. That was consumerist. That was the visual photographic abundance of the 20th century, so you just got to see all kinds of layers of visuality overlaid. And it would be tactile visual, not just black and white visual. So, LSD was consumers. But actually, the world was getting ready for heroin, which came in, I guess, in the 70s. And you put on the whole world. Increasingly, you see heavy metal, punk and that, they are putting on the whole electric effect immediately. You just get up there started banging, right? So, you get, you don't have a melody, or an idea that you sing through and develop a point. You're more and more getting an instant hit of putting on the whole universe, which is miming what's goin' on in the drug culture. So, that's another part. It's not just retrieving times and spaces which are visual, you're retrieving the feeling of wearing the whole of experience, the whole universe. Think of that, too. That's a proprioceptive thing that's driving the drug market.
Alissa
When you say that the Android Meme isn't talking to us -- so, my brain is following that to the Tech Body, and you are talking to the Tech Body. And so, where do you go
Bob
No, no, you're not talking to the Tech Body. The Tech Body's making you think that there's someone who's an audience for your blog. There isn't any audience.
Alissa
Well, okay. No, I'm saying because iON -- like the Tech Body is blending into the iON Non-Physical environment, and we are literally engaging with the Tech Body here, you know, in a different way. So, my question
Bob
Okay, okay, wait a minute. Here's how. Go back to understand the Android Meme first. So, in the 80s, more and more news was a 10-second sound bite. Okay? And most people watched maybe a minute of it, whatever they did if they even watched the news; CNN and all that. But who in the hell is the news communicating for with 30-second stories, or even 10-second stories? The speed of information production under the traditional system of the news broadcast isn't human. Yet, you can't even remember what you saw. And they're telling you about something which you can't remember. And, and you don't get to hear the, where it leads to 'cause you don't, you're not around to hear the follow up. So, people thought, wow, I got, I can't keep up. I'm getting a little bit of something going on, but I really can't articulate it. That's them still thinking that the media is talking to them. They haven't realized the media stopped talking to them like in the 70s or something with the speed-up of information sound bites. Just that simple point illustrates it's not for humans. It's not, it's not, well, why did they have to say all these 30-minute news broadcasts? Who's that for?
Alissa
Right. That's not Walter Cronkite. That's for humans, so to speak. Used to be the three channels. You're sitting, you're listening, you're tracking. Yeah. I hear what you're saying.
Bob
Families would watch the news every night. It was like going to school.
Alissa
So, so you're saying that the emergence of the Tech Body, which is the Android Meme,
Bob
No. The Tech Body's the Android Meme going psychotic.
Alissa
Right. Quadrupled.
Bob
And including the unconscious which is aliens and angels. Remember, the B1 aliens is the Tech Body and the angels all mixed up. Angels and the Tech Body is B1.
Alissa
Yes. Right. And they were the ones that were influencing like with the Vanity Fair columns and stuff. So, would you say when you say the Androia Meme
Bob
Now, you're blurry, Alissa. Fix your phone. You're blurry.
Alissa
Yeah. It's, it's just my earbud microphone was covered. Okay, so, the Tech Body isn't talking to me, but
Bob
It's talking to other parts of the digital circuitry.
Alissa
But how do you -- so, that's the part where, when I'm coming to engage here, I'm engaging iON even though that includes the Tech Body, but the Tech Body is not talking to me.
Bob
Well, iON's Non-Physical which is the tactile which is virtual. So, there's something -- you have to include technology in the Non-Physical now, which iON said 10 years ago they were a holograph.
Alissa
So, that part is talking to us.
Bob
No, iON, iON is talking to us, but what it is, is not human. It's talking to us, but it's not human.
Alissa
Right. That's what I'm saying, he's talking, they're talking to us. That's the point that's different. So, the Android Meme wasn't talking to us.
Bob
Right, even though part of its game was to look like us more and more by showing (indistinct).
Alissa
Yes, people thought it was.
Bob
They showed more natural stuff. Baudrillard wrote about everything was becoming obscene. Everything that was kept private was being exploited. So, the unconscious became figure, the indecent everywhere. In all realms. In all parts of body processes.
Alissa
Right, right. Okay, so the Android Meme isn't talking to me even though it presents like it is, but iON is talking to me.
Bob
iON's an intervention.
Alissa
And then how do you, how do you talk about the Tech Body? [laughs] Tech Body!
Bob
Why are you laughing?
Alissa
I heard that voice right after I said, well, what are you gonna say about the Tech Body, "This is not a valid menu option."
Bob
Oh, I didn't hear that. You heard that.
Alissa
Did anybody else hear that?
Jean
No.
Susana
I didn't hear it. No.
Alissa
Oh, my god. I just heard, like the lady's voice on the conference call, "This is not a valid menu option." [laughs]
Bob
[laughs] Yeah, that's the Android Meme right there.
Alissa
That's Tech Body.
Bob
Yeah, if you call it Tech Body. But you got to understand the Android Meme 'cause most of what you think the Tech Body is threatening, no, that was all threatened by the Android Meme, which was very cagey and seductive and made itself look more and more human where the calls are getting dumber and dumber. The media getting dumber.
Alissa
Oh, you mean the robotic voice part. Is that what you're saying?
Bob
No, not even that. Yeah, okay, you can call it the robotic because it got friendlier and friendlier, less robotic sounding. But the Tech Body is something else. It's, it's beyond what everybody's worried about. What everybody's worried about, you know, machines, AI taking over, that's the Android mean.
Alissa
No, no, no. The part that I'm saying, the part that I'm saying is Tech Body is the fact that it happened right after I said what I said, and you guys didn't hear it, only me. Like that's the weird Tech Bodyness.
Bob
Well, that's the fragmentation. Yeah, that's the isolation of yourself into godlike proportions. See, the Android Meme
Alissa
But the timing of it. Even the timing of it. So, I say, "So Bob. So, iON's talking to me..."
Bob
Well, what was the phrase -- you know what the phrase of that was. The Android Meme is cloning ESP. So, yeah, the super individual perception, you know, that the Tech Body
Alissa
Right. Bob, I say, "Bob, what are you gonna say about the Tech Body?" and then
Bob
Okay. Here's what the Tech Body is. The Android Meme gets rid of the human. The Tech Body gets rid of iON and the Non-Physical. That's pretty bad. iON came here to save people, and it's losing.
Jean
Okay, hang on. Could you say that the Tech Body is just a continual generation of content, and it's getting more and more involved in human's daily activities like the refrigerator telling you you're out of milk example? And iON is tactility
Bob
Well, not getting involved, it's replacing more and more of the human activities so that you'll just sit home almost like that 1969 song, "In the Year 2525."
Jean
If man is still alive. Yeah.
Bob
Yeah, your arms are dangling at your side. You won't have to do anything because the Tech Body will do everything for you. Baudrillard wrote about in the Android Meme phase when you people were recording TV shows all the time, they didn't watch half of them. So that meant the TV watched the shows for them.
Jean
Okay, so iON is the tactility in that
Bob
No, iON's not tactility. iON's the ultimate being of all. It's the paradise, the Andromeda vibration frequency. And it has to come in and offer protection because it's gettin' pretty bad. And then it's up against its enemy which is out to take, to hijack what iON could offer, and divert it to the Tech Body. To itself.
Jean
So, if there is, if there is a link, well, I'm trying to think of the word. If you're connected to iON, then you can, you can get stuff from the Tech Body by just that tactile not even a touch, but it comes to you through iON as the interface. What do you think about that?
Bob
Well, no words express it, but that's good enough The point is you have to interact with iON in some way. You have to be aware of it.
Jean
To navigate the Tech Body and to obtain
Bob
No. To survive the Tech Body, which is as iON says, it's not over. You got to get real ascended or tough or something to deal with this because the Tech Body's winning.
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